Gordon Clay: I had Linda give you a copy of this and you don't need to look at it right now. We will reference it. It is the transcript of the entire four-part series that was on the Internet and of the DVD they sell. So, thank-you for seeing me. I wanted to apologize for not using the chain of command. The...I have found that dealing with corporations that the only chain of command to use is top down. Through the CEO. Otherwise, it gets all mired up and so that's why we, I did, because we did it separately. I'm hoping it will work in this system rather than what's happened in the corporate world. But I do want you to know that. Now, in the chain of command, now in the chain of command, up or down, what would have been a better way? Because we did do chain of command. We started at the board then down to the supervisor and principle and the teacher. What are you talking about when you say chain of command? In this case.

Superintendent Brian Hodge: There are several levels because I understand you received the information from a substitute aid, is that correct?

Clay: Right.

Hodge: Actually, we have a policy on that, also. Her, if she had a concern about what happened in the classroom, she had two options. Go directly to the teacher or go to the principle.

Clay: Okay. Because she started top down too.

Hodge: Yes.

Clay: Now, it wouldn't make sense to me to go to the teacher because the teacher was the problem. And, she's working, in essence, as subordinate to the teacher. It would seem like, if you have a problem with the teacher, you go a little higher than the teacher. I really want to understand that because it's important.

Hodge: Did she actually have a problem with the teacher or what the content was

Clay: The issue, what the teacher presented to the class.

Hodge: So you think it would be better if I had a problem with a local business instead of going directly to the person I was having a problem with, I would go to the company president.

Clay: Or with the management. If I've got a problem with somebody at Fred Meyer, I'd talk to Matt. Talking to the person I got a problem with is like denial and all those kind of things and usually exacerbates a problem. A lot of defenses going up.

Hodge: This is my personal feeling. If I have a problem with somebody or something that a person is doing, I think it's my obligation to go directly to that person. I think it's the most honest, and straight forward way dealing with that.

Clay: Okay.

Hodge: Going around them or going above them I think is almost disrespectful. I think it's much more honest to go directly to the person.

Clay: Okay. In this circumstance, at least what was reported in The Pilot, that her open door policy, what she ostensibly said was, she's got an open door policy for parents of the students. That's the only open-door policy that she stated. Whether The Pilot got that, but it was in quote marks, or whether...

Hodge: When you say "she" I'm not sure...

Clay: Chew. Nancy Chew. And that's what was reported in The Pilot. That you had an open door policy, the principle had it, and then quote, her open door policy was to the parents of the children that she teaches.

Hodge: And you don't think the employee did it.

Clay: I don't know. Would she be open to somebody like me who has no student there. I have no kids in school. I do a lot with the school. I provide a lot of free service and free energy but I don't have any connection with any particular student in town.

Hodge: I know we depend on the individual, we can depend on the principle.

Clay: Right. Right. And we're getting clearer on that. I also want to say that I recognize and appreciate the job you're doing because I've seen it in a number of areas, and particularly one of the things The Pilot's asked me to write on is the Smart Boards. And, Arwyn's going to do a story but there are things that she can't put in a story like that that a citizen can. (i.e. Personal opinion.) And I know Michael Gurian, who has written a number of books on teaching girls and boys differently and he's a personal friend of mine and I have all his books and I've worked in this issue for a while. So, I'll be writing a piece on that. Hopefully, if I can get it done before the 8th of December because I'm heading out of town and I think she's going to print it sometime on a slow news day. But I really want to promote that and I don't know if you had a direct piece with that getting it in but having it here.

Hodge: Trying to keep up and it's a wonderful tool.

Clay: I talked with a good friend of mine who is in rural Louisiana and I told her about this, this Smart Board. And she said, oh yeah, we've had those for a couple of years. Rural Louisiana. Probably one of the best places for it. To have the visual, kinetic experience rather than just through the ears.

Hodge: And if you ever have the opportunity to see how the, we have a number of classrooms now that have the clickers.

Clay: Wendy showed us that.

Hodge: Well, again I've gone to many presentations where they use the clickers to see the participation with the audience You're with them the whole time. And it's immediate and there's a, it brings the level of accountability rachets it up. And, it's wonderful, because when I was a teacher we'd use white boards and a pen. But it was really effective but you would, you have to get immediate feedback and you have to do constant assessment so you can adjust what you're teaching. It's such a great tool.

Clay: I want one. I'm on social security but I do presentations so I really like that, the ability I see, there's a portable one out there that I'm just going to find out what it runs and what kind of computer I have to have for it and all. My computer got a Trojan in it on Saturday so a lot of this is hand written instead of having everything printed out I've already got it over to Chris and he's working on it Cleaning it up. How did you learn, when it all came out, how did you learn where she said she got the information? Did you get that from the principle or from her?

Hodge: From her directly. I didn't know where the information came from.

Clay: And she told you that it was the neok12, that she used it off the neok12 site.

Hodge: We're talking about two different things.

Clay: What she showed in class.

Hodge: What she showed in class. That was through the principle.

Clay: Okay. And was it just here's the URL and you checked it out or was it a DVD , or was it hard

Hodge: It was a matter of the Board Chair calling me, talking about the concern. That was in the late afternoon, evening and the next morning immediately I went to the principle, explained what was going on, that there was a concern and then she met with the teacher and that's, I was told that everything was taken care of. That there was a, she'd taken care of it, which is the normally that's how it works.

Clay: And did you view the web site?

Hodge: I went to the web site but the...I went to the web site to get an idea of what was said, what it was about and that was from the board chair letting me know about the web site on YouTube.

Clay: So he knew about the web site?

Hodge: Yah, I think he was told by Laura, was it Laura?

Clay: The teacher, the teacher's aid?

Hodge: About the, is it Lynn

Clay: Linda.

Hodge: Linda, I'm sorry. Linda and then

Clay: But she didn't know about the web site. She didn't know about it. The only way we found out about it was, in fact I asked the principle at the Board meeting would you please get it to me and she said yes, give me your telephone number and email. I gave both of them to her and I have yet to hear. The only way Linda found out about it was in the newspaper.

Hodge: Oh, because that's how I found out about it through the Board Chair.

Clay: Okay. Hum.

Hodge: He said if you want to look at it, this is where you can go.

Clay: That's interesting.

Hodge: But at that time I had no, I didn't know exactly what was shown

Clay: What he, hu, what he, and I don't believe, I'll ask Bob because I know him too, what he probably knew was not the educational web site because Linda and Tom searched out to where this came from and as far as anybody can tell it came from the four clips. That's what we knew was the four clips (Google search had it all in one 30 minute clip). Because that's what the information matched the most and it was not until it was in the newspaper, the neok12 came out. And that's different, or she said that's what she used. And so, I was just trying to figure out, so you really hadn't seen the clip.

Hodge: Just off of YouTube. I haven't seen the clip off the educational web site.

Clay: Okay, okay. Well, that's good. Because, okay. I was the one who convinced Linda to talk because she was afraid, you know whistle blowers usually end up on the wrong end of the information and actually she feels a bit that way when she revealed what was actually shown in class, not what the teacher said was shown in class. She felt like she wasn't heard and nothing was going to be done about it because it sounded like the protection of the teacher, we don't want to bother the teacher any more. She's been through a lot etc. and then turning it around about not going through the correct chain of command.

Hodge: Well, we didn't try to turn anything around. That's just...

Clay: When you heard about that it was very very different than where the teacher claimed it came from, did you, do you understand that? That it is...

Hodge: I have not had the teacher, told me the allegation. (somewhat garbled)

Clay: Okay, Okay. Has anything proceeded with that or is there any plan to proceed with that?

Hodge: Discussion, I'm sure.

Clay: Okay. With the teacher?

Hodge: (No verbal comment.)

Clay: Okay. Because I've got Linda's notes from class a

Hodge: So do I.

Clay: and she is known as a great note taker. And..

Hodge: What exactly would Linda and yourself want out of that conversation?

Clay: Well, I'll get there.

Hodge: Okay

Clay: For me, it's truth, and integrity. and my experience of you are both of those up to this. And I've got a big question about this and that's one of the reasons of chain of command I don't think a lot of this would have come out if it had just been taken to the teacher. And maybe it would and we'll try that in the future. because there's also still a lot of outstanding stuff about the teacher that was going to give credit to, I think this was in the high school, was going to give credit to any of his students that went to the Constitutional thing and then the Board stepped in, or something like that on that and got that knocked down but the teacher continued with the class, of recommending this, we'll cover the expenses, the whole thing. So it was like on perspective.

Hodge: How would you know that.

Clay: Linda was in that class. And, as you know, opposed to what Lars Larson says, this is not a a liberal town. And he said on the broadcast that Brookings is a very liberal community and the school board's very liberal and the newspaper's liberal. And, he's got an agenda but he has no idea what's going on in Brookings.

Hodge: He's an entertainer.

Clay: Yeah, right, right. And, the people here get their main news, and you may too from Fox. And Fox is an entertainer. You know. Even their news programs are entertainers. But anyway, that's a side light here. Nancy had reported to The Pilot, and I assume she reported it, or ostensibly, because it has quote marks on the front page article, that it was from the educational web site, it was a 10 minute clip, and she had no idea where it came from. As far as I can tell, and I don't believe Linda would take the 10 minute clip and go manufacture notes from the class and say this is from the class, she's not that kind of person. I believe in that integrity. However, when you look at those notes and match them to this transcript, this is why I got you the transcript, Every bit of it is in here except the last three or four minutes when the bell rang. And we can't confirm, Linda wasn't, didn't hear that section. I've got the DVD that most of what's on the Internet came from. There is a section in there at the start and at the end and in the middle and, that isn't on the Internet, anywhere. And, I've talked to John Birch Society and they say they only made one version. So, maybe all of this stuff on the Internet was edited out by somebody. But, all of this was on the Internet. And all of this was in the DVD, Overview of America, which is 30 minutes long. It talks about the constitution being built on the 10 Commandments, a very religious document and it was based on God and Christianity and all that kind of stuff, which isn't part of the educational piece. So the students, and that wouldn't be difficult to find out with a Focus group, or something, heard this. (The long version up to 30 minutes) And it's not what was proported to be what they heard. (Garbled) So, here's what I would do is communicate what you've learned with the teacher, checkout and see if she can give you, I assume she got it off the Internet in class, she plugged in her computer and brought it down from the Internet and showed it and not had a disc.

Hodge: Yes.

Clay: That would be helpful to determine is, obviously to outsiders, it wasn't a ten minute clip.

Hodge: Garbled)

Clay: And it wasn't from the educational web site cause I've looked at every single one, no I haven't, I've look at five different ones on the educational web site and they're all 10:36. Ten minutes and 36 seconds and this is 30 minutes. Or what was proported to actually be shown in the class. And, get clarity on that and then if you determine that she was misleading in her answers to the principle and to the newspaper ask for an apology. She was asked for an apology and the principle, in the meeting, s heard said, she didn't give one. If she had given an apology, it would probably have shown guilt because she's apologizing for something she said she didn't do. However, she, from our perspective, she mislead everybody which led to a lot of stuff out in the community going to that web site and seeing something that was a very small portion, a third of what was shown. And follow-up with the press to give them the actual information of what was shown so that people can make a clear decision. And really get the truth. Get the truth. And, I think you owe an apology to Linda. She felt very discounted and maybe that's just Linda because her meeting, you asked us to come through chain, she set up a meeting with you, she told you what she learned, her experience was that the issue was basically done, Nancy Chew had been through a lot with this and we're not going to do anything. And beriding her for not going, and it sounded like a pretty long period of time beriding her for not doing the chain of command. And I'm just saying what I would look at doing, okay, because again its the, to me its the whistle blower getting the barrage and not the person that caused the problem in the first place and mislead. If it is true, mislead the principle and the newspaper. And the community, about what was being said. And, my commitment is to, and I would have done this this weekend, I would have spent the whole weekend on this if I had my computer, is to find a suitable one that supports, a suitable DVD, that's approved by the school board or whomever it needs to be, on the positiveness of Democracy.

Hodge: So you think you have, as an individual citizen, you have the right to tell the teacher what to teach?

Clay: No.

Hodge: You just said that.

Clay: No. I want both sides. I want, I don't want a political agenda taught in classrooms using her experience and her organizations and her letters and all that kind of stuff to be one way. It's like - that's Fascist. That's the Fascist way. Instead of presenting a whole variety. I would want, I would want as a supervisor to have my kids, let me tell you something. A young woman that I worked with at Children and Family Services, had just moved here from Florida, went to Gold Beach High School, and she was on SOCYL group, the Southern Oregon Youth _______, and she said, you know what surprised me here, that we were talking about the Ku Klux Klan in class, high school, junior I think, and you know what most of the students believed, that the Ku Klux Klan is a black organization. That's part of our community. That's part of the cloistered, smallness of thinking. I would not have a problem with religion being taught if, it's not just Christianity and it's Judaism, Muslin, Islam, pagan, all of it. The whole perspective. And, to get one narrow perspective taught, I don't think that's education. That's, that's, if you've ever seen Jesus Camp, that comes from my home town I lived next door to Robert McPugh who ran Minute Men and Minute Men came from John Birch. He was a big man in the John Birch Society I've been around that a lot. It's a crazy, crazy world and just have that be the lesson rather than, well, here's what people say, I would think that that is what social studies are. Here's what these people think, here's what this group thinks about the founding of our country, and Democracy and Fascism I mean. We had a lot of Dictatorship feeling in the last ten years, you know. We had a dictator up there There were groups that were out there, there were hundreds of Militia in this country that are spreading this and to only have that viewpoint or the Tea Party viewpoint, because she's also the, I believe, or was the Secretary of the Tea Party here in town

Hodge: Mrs. Chew.

Clay: Yah. To have that kind of indoctrination of children in a public school. If they want to do it at their Christian school, unless somebody steps in and says they can't.

Hodge: Can I ask you something.

Clay: Sure

Hodge: Now Linda was in the classroom for..

Clay: Till the bell rang.

Hodge: Forty-five minutes maybe tops?

Clay: I don't know how long the classes are.

Hodge: Has she been in the classroom before or since?

Clay: Yah. She was in there second time when it was shown

Hodge: So, I only knew about one. I didn't know about the second time, the same day?

Clay: I don't know, I don't know that.

Hodge: It seems to me we are making a lot of judgments on Mrs. Chew for just a snapshot of time. We don't know what the lesson plans were. We don't know anything about it. And here's a very very highly regarded teacher at this school. Who has helped numerous kids.

Clay: I don't doubt that.

Hodge: And she education foundation and spends hours of her own time trying to help kids. Raise funds for kids. And it would be nice to see that part of her too.

Clay: I got that. I got that totally, and I don't have any doubts of anything you say and that's what worries me about that piece of integrity and truth.

Hodge: But your taking Linda, you see I'm stepping back and looking at Linda, Linda as an aid, and we're taking Mrs. Chew's word from the newspaper and you and I both know, I don't know if you have, but I've been misquoted numerous times in the paper

Clay: Oh yah.

Hodge: Which has really maybe 180 from what I said, or been. This is an interesting situation that I want everybody to have integrity but it's also my job to make sure that the kids are taught, to have Linda think that I would, I took time out of my very very busy day.

Clay: And you've taken it for me too.

Hodge: Out of respect for her and I had an idea what she was coming in for but didn't know for sure. And she wanted to go directly to the paper. And I said can you just wait. Have you talked with Mrs. Chew and she hadn't. And...

Clay: She hasn't been able to get hold of her.

(Phone rings.)

Hodge: I don't want to see. I think we've learned a lot from this and in a good way we're trying to teach the kids often, you go to the Internet you have to be a thinker. You can't take everything for granted. What we're trying to accomplish here at school we want our kids to come out as thinkers and (phone rings) And this is a very very good lesson, you look at material, and you have to be a thinker and you have to be a problem solver. You have to look at all angles of everything and just because it's on the Internet isn't necessarily that it's so and everything has a bias and it's a really good educational opportunity for the kids and staff.

Clay: Yah. And, I totally believe that . The piece is misleading. It is quoted in the newspaper. That was an interview Arwyn had, that might not be true, but she told the principle that which was in the board meeting. The principle mentioned the web site, that it came, it was, and the principle said, it was just a 10 minute clip you know and it was from an educational web site and how would she know where it came from I would be very interested to know where it came from. Because that, whether, somebody produced something that was, our perception, somebody produced something that was played in class for an extended period of time that was much more than was on the educational web site. I think that's a lesson too. Getting, I love getting our kids thinking. And I think Smart Board and a number of things that are being done in the school system are really accomplishing that. I think the piece that we might, my projection again, the last ten years, the ten years before Obama came in and while probably Obama's been in, there was a lot of finger pointing, nobody took responsibility for anything they said or did, they covered it up, all kinds of stuff went on, in the last 10 years have been a really bad teaching for our kids on integrity What is it to be in integrity and take responsibility for what your do and say. And this is another teaching point. That we really have to, in order to trust our educational system, we have to get the truth out of it. It has to come out and be presented So, that's basically what we're asking for is the truth be known. And not holding her over the coals Anything like that. It's just, let's get to the truth. Where in the education video is two-thirds of that. (The teacher's aid's notes from class.) I've run a lot of Focus groups and I could go in with the students who saw it and find out exactly what they saw without them even realizing it. You know. And ah because that's techniques you need to know to get to the truth in an advertisement or a political thing.

Hodge: You'd put the students through that?

Clay: No, no. I say I could put them through that and find out exactly what they saw. So, it wouldn't be Linda's notes, it wouldn't be what the teacher said, it's what the kids remember, out of it, which might be an interesting educational thing. I wouldn't do it.

Hodge: It would be a neat trick to pull it off because you'd have to get parent permission, probably have parents there while you did it. That would be a pretty neat trick.

Clay: It would be fun, actually. But, I don't, I don't, my sense is that if this doesn't get cleaned up, it's going to come out in public. It's not going to be, it's not a dead issue.

Hodge: That's unfortunate because it seems to me that it should be. Because the teacher's learned from it, I don't know, you want Mrs. Chew to come out in public and say

Clay: The source so that the people...

Hodge: You want her to come out say I lied and you're basing this on

Clay: What was seen in class.

Hodge: Yah but, have you heard the words out of Mrs. Chew mouth?

Clay: No. Linda tried to get hold of her and hasn't been able to.

Hodge: When?

Clay: Ugh. I don't know.

Hodge: Before she contacted the board. Before she contacted the paper?

Clay: Oh no no no. We didn't know what the web site was.

Hodge: But the paper was contacted before Mrs. Chew even had an opportunity to say that.

Clay: Right and...

Hodge: The people, the local newspaper was contacted before Mrs Chew was even contacted her accusers of doing something wrong.

Clay: I did that.

Hodge: Why?

Clay: Because I heard about it, I, they said what, and I didn't have her name, I didn't know who it was, the teacher was, there's a board meeting coming up in a couple of days so I contacted the newspaper and said I can't find on the agenda this information that this is going to be a subject on the agenda but I think Arwyn covers the school and I think you might want to be aware of this issue. I didn't tell them what the issue was I said there's an issues coming up...

Hodge: The principle and the teacher hadn't even been contacted.

Clay: Right (But the board had) I made an error. There's no question in my mind.

Hodge: Now you made an error. Now, are you going to be publiclally in the paper, Gordon Clay made an error

Clay: I would be happy

Hodge: Okay.

Clay: I'd be happy to.

Hodge: You're going to write an article that I really apologize to the teacher for...

Clay: Yes

Hodge:... instead of

Clay: Actually, I could put that in there anyway. I don't have any problem

Hodge: And at no times the principal or teacher talked to...this was all second and third hand information from the get-go.

Clay: Right (As of 12/17/10 I still haven't been able to gain access to the teacher to confirm information I have received from the School Board, the Superintendent, the Principal, Mr. Chew and The Pilot.)

Hodge: You know where I learned the most to go directly to the source? I learned over and over and over again from children because as an elementary school principal you're in charge of discipline and referrals _______________ Eight out of ten times the story, the original story that came to me was not fact. It changed when I got the actual individuals that were involved and got right down to the truth. 8 out of 10 times the original story was wrong. And that's taught me personally, that if I really want to know what's going on, if I'm really interested int he truth, I go to the individual. I don't go around them I go directly to them. And that's a life lesson that I've learned.

Clay: And, you know that children are a lot more truthful than adults.

Hodge: I choose to think highly of people I don't automatically think people are liars or thieves until they prove me wrong. I think the best of people until they prove me wrong. And I definitely take people's reputations very very seriously. Especially in a small town. And they're very delicate and I no way condone trying to cover things up. That's not my job. But I do care about people who live here and making sure that things are done correctly and the right information is brought out from the start. And I certainly don't try to hurt people and I don't want to see people hurt by this. And it's beginning to go that way.

Clay: I would be happy to talk to Chew. I would be happy to go through this whole thing with her and get answers from her.

Hodge: Why would she talk to you? Why would she care about you?

Clay: You're asking me to do it.

Hodge: I'm not asking you to _______________

Clay: You're asking me to get the truth or you're asking me not to do something.

Hodge: I'm not asking. You do what you want to do.

Clay: I don't know why she would . Be interested in the truth?

Hodge: Now Gordon, I want to insure that we have no connection, right?

Clay: What do you mean.

Hodge: We have no connection. You not employed, you're not ...

Clay: Nope, nope.

Hodge: Now, Linda, on the other hand, I've not telling her what to do either. As an employee of the district, there are certain policies that she has to follow. She broke policies, by not going to her supervisor. She broke, she basically did not do the proper thing because she broke a board policy by not going to her supervisor.

Clay: And her supervisor is?

Hodge: Would be the principle.

Clay: Okay.

Hodge: A policies are very ____________.

Clay: Yeah

Hodge: So, it's interesting. This is ...interesting situation. I just that people are considerate of other people's feelings.

Clay: Yeah. And I will...She may not be interested in talking to me. I'm going to pursue to get the truth since we can't trust the principle, what the principle said, or what the Pilot said or what anybody else said about what Nancy Chew said.

Hodge: You may want to talk to the principal about that too if you can't trust what she said.

Clay: I'm saying what she repeated about the web site, that it was just a 10 minute clip and I will do that. Since I've got a door there because she hasn't told me what she said she would, either, so. (at the board meeting the Principal told me she would get the web site URL for what was presented.) I can pursue that.

Hodge: Good.

Clay: I don't want to destroy her. I want the truth. Particularly in this community. because this is a very different community that isn't open to a lot of free thinking. And I want the kids to have free thinking.

Hodge: Why do you say it's not open to free thinking?

Clay: There are sermons that go on in this town that are very angry sermons against people. You talk about protecting people.

Hodge: I've raised five...five of my children have graduated from this high school.

Clay: Really, wow.

Hodge: And the...I consider them intelligent, free thinkers that are enjoying their lives. So -

Clay: They live here in town?

Hodge: Two of them do. Yes. ________________________I just don't want, I'd hate to think that our communities been so short. I think it's a pretty wonderful place. And I've met wonderful wonderful people. But I give people space to think what they want. ______________

Clay: You see, I've spoken at the TEA Party and I got - the stage attacked (physically) here. And I've spoken four times at the TEA Party. I don't have their belief, I have a belief of freedom of speech. I was physically attacked, though they didn't reach the stage and I didn't realize it but I was told by another person here in town that three, two or three vets stepped up between me and this other guy who was swinging a sign and stopped him from getting to the stage. Which I'm very happy about. And Sue Gold and all apologized for that happening to me said that that should have ever happened and they're going to take steps in the future to do that. There are. Yes there are incredible people here in town. And there are some very dangerous people in town. And that doesn't bother me.

Hodge: I think as in anywhere there...you...

Clay: Oh yah. A little bit more than the bay area. Or Marin County.

Hodge: Pardon me.

Clay: A little bit different than Marin County. That's where I spent 26 years and brought up my daughter. We could say virtually anything and have a great discussion about it and what I experienced in Marin that I never experienced in Berkeley at the University, etc. because I was also in a film The Color of Fear about racism, hundreds of thousands of government programs have shown that in their diversity lectures and in Marin we could present something or we could get into a discussion about something and it was "I want to hear what you have to say and I want you to hear what I have to say" and it opened up this communication that was phenomenal. Almost everywhere else I've gone, I get "This is the only way. And you've got to do it our way or the highway. And this is only one perspective and I don't care about your perspective and that whole thing." So, I've had a community that was very supportive of dialogue. And there are, I've found some people, a few people in Brookings that that ------------------Garbled) and a lot of other sections they don't want to hear or consider any other viewpoint. In Toastmasters, to change that perspective because they've got to listen. And, what I like about it is they do listen and they judge me on not my content but presentation and that whole thing. Which I really like. A few of them use cuts at other places to dig in but there are those. And I do love this community. I have trouble with some of the attitudes as you may see in the newspaper now and then and I do a lot for the community, too It sort of an old Che Gavara quote: If I'm not getting shot at I'm not doing good work. And it's a little different than conflict resolution. I worked in RC for years and know all the steps and know how to do that and my perspective shifts things. Gets some energy going like a talk show does but on the other side, more of a Rachel Maddow side than a Lars Larson side. With facts. I go facts. I like facts and you pointed out that I don't, that I have some assumptions off of some quotes that I got, the same quote from three different places, but I will check that out. Because that's the goal, to find out the truth.

Hodge: Good

Clay: So, thaank-you. Do you have anything more?

Hodge: No.

Clay: Okay. Thank-you for your time. And, my commitment is not only to find some information on Democracy that's positive but also to contact Principal Lipski and give her a viewpoint here and then ask permission to talk to Nancy.

Hodge: Good And I am going on tape saying to, I am sorry that Linda felt in anyway that I was trying to be rude to her because I thought I was being quite gental.

Clay: I don't know rude was it. But she felt cornered that yeah she took the wrong road. She admitted that, didn't she?

Hodge: Yeah

Clay: We all do. No, I won't speak for the others. I do, she does, that we took the wrong road. In this circumstance. And, understanding the road a little better and going forward.

Hodge: Great.

Clay: Because I hope the next time we talk it will be about a story on Smart Boards

Hodge: That would be great.

Clay: And all that kind of stuff. Thank-you very much.

Hodge: You're welconme.

Clay: I appreciate your time.

Hodge: Yeah Yeah You bet.

Clay: And we'll move forward.

Hodge: You take care.

Clay: Thank-you